The first thing USAWP needs to address is the disparity between how the boys’ and girls’ events are treated. The boys’ tournament has plenty of space, more officials working fewer games, and better organization. Then they shove all the 10’s, and 12’s coeds into the second session. This crunches the pool space, limits the number of officials available (also because fewer officials want to work the second session), and crowds the pool decks and parking lots.
You had 14 girls platinum playing in a 5-lane course in Corona, and wall goals in Villa Park. That would never be tolerated on the 14 boys’ platinum side.
Throughout my entire life USAWP has been trying to reinvent the wheel with their men’s team with little change or success. They are placated to at every level, and this JO’s was no exception. You know why our men can’t beat the Eastern Euros? Because they’re pampered and babied throughout their water polo lives!
Here’s your solution, USAWP: treat them like the girls!
(There’s no shortage of other issues with JO’s, and you covered a lot of it, but that’s the most egregious one I saw).
We at SHAQ, had a blast at JOs. Overall felt the officiating and desk workers were great. Some pools may have been a little small but we understand how hard it is to schedule that many games. I had fun videotaping some 10u parental behavior in the stands and hope someday that parents remember that kids can not hear their coaches when you are berating the referees or telling them to shoot. Go USA Polo and Go SHAQ. Mark Anderson
I'm glad that you and your club had a positive experience at JOs. I hope it's clear that I'm not saying there is no value in the event, and I think the experience of each club and team at the event will be different as well. I do think that there are aspects to the event that I've brought up here that still bear examination and discussion such as the parental behavior you allude to. Thanks for your reply and keep thinking water polo!
Great thoughts! My daughter and her east coast club had a great time this year, and had a great time last year. Her team struggles to find competitive games outside of California so JO's are tough to beat. Squeezing as many games as possible in a short window is a pretty effective cost for the competition and exposure. We were lucky to have a great group of parents and a roster with fairly balanced playing time, plus the team outplayed their initial seed and had a lot of college coaches see the girls play for the first time. We did have one game where the officiating let the physicality get out of control and another where a player was questionably rolled 3 minutes in, but water polo struggles with officiating at all levels (as you've written). I'm sure their coach was miserable but overall it was extremely positive for the kids and the parents.
I can see how it's much less fun for a California team who has a day of blowouts just to play the same clubs they play multiple times a year. However, it gives so many clubs from outside of California a unique experience that I think is critical for maintaining, let alone growing the sport outside of California. I worry that significant changes to the event would negatively impact the non-California clubs, which is already a challenge.
Finally, the complaints about ringers are kinda silly IMO. It seems like most top clubs have someone that doesn't train with the club year round on their JO roster. Every situation is different for the club and the kid but I don't have much sympathy for an Orange County club bringing in a top player from Texas or the East Coast losing to a team with a few Brazilian national players.
I appreciate you bringing your perspective to the conversation! The difference in JOs between California teams and out of state teams and even between the major clubs in California and the smaller ones is an interesting point of discussion.
Likewise, your point about the ability for your daughter's team to get these level of games as well as the cost effectiveness (and cost in general) of getting them is another great area that I think there is much to be said about.
Unfortunately, I was already well over 1500 words in my post and there are so many facets to this discussion that some things were just out of the scope of my article. Thank you for bringing some of those things to the discussion.
Yeah good point on smaller California clubs having a different experience. My daughter also used to play on one of those and we were able to go to a couple of their games in a Classic Division and spend some time with the team. Level of play was clearly lower than Platinum but the kids were having fun playing competitive games against new teams at their level. I didn't hear any complaints from parents, they were just happy to watch their kids play polo, and the kids seemed to enjoy the experience as well. Keep in mind these are kids who just want to play on their high school team and maybe do club in college. It makes me wonder if many of the gripes you're hearing come from the top ~5-20 clubs who are putting a ton of pressure on themselves but aren't quite at the highest level, with a few additional gripes coming from some of the Orange County clubs somewhat unjustly stuck in a Classic division. While everyone else is mostly happy to be there or competing for the championship.
Junior Olympics isn't about the event. If all you are focusing on is the uncomfortable seating on crowded pool decks in the intense sunshine, the cacophony of aggressive parents, and the itineraries where everything from travel, to managing what to eat when, to where to spend the time between games, then you are going to be disappointed. Staying at home on your comfy couch in your air-conditioned house is the better option. Junior Olympics is about the 11 months getting to Junior Olympics. It is about the hundreds of hours the kids spend learning to interact as members of a team, the work they put in to developing a skill, and the emotional journey through the games leading up to Junior Olympics. It is not a journey that happens to someone who plans to spend the 3rd week in July on their couch. You knew that once.
I appreciate youre response and it seems I've struck a nerve with you. I never discredited the work or buildup to JOs. Instead I am saying that the event is an unworthy product for the effort the teams are putting in.
I think it's at least a little disingenuous to say that I'm focusing on the wrong things when I'm relating what I observed and overheard or that it's about the work and team when so much of the chatter around the event is about ringers and superteams. I was clear that I think there are positives about JOs and think individual teams and clubs get a lot from it, but responses like yours that try to act like the issues pointed out shouldn't be discussed or addressed are part of the problem to me.
It wasn't my intention to be disingenuous and I greatly appreciate the effort in crafting your thoughts. What I was trying to say was the event that is Junior Olympics should be viewed in context. It is the end point of a line and I think the line is pretty great even if the end point doesn't meet expectations.
There are annoying parents, bad coaches, and inconsistent calls. All could be better. As for the foreign players that are the obsession on the board, meh. The most egregious example I can think of is La Jolla bringing in two Italian players on 10u last year. They finished 2nd in 10u. Instead of boosting their brand, they tanked it. Last year La Jolla had an A and B team in 10u. This year they didn't have enough kids to make a B team. Meanwhile Del Mar last year had an A and B team in 10u, finished 3 places lower than La Jolla, and this year had an A, B, and C 10u team. La Jolla brought in foreign kids and damaged their pipeline while Del Mar is reaping the benefits.
Where to start…
The first thing USAWP needs to address is the disparity between how the boys’ and girls’ events are treated. The boys’ tournament has plenty of space, more officials working fewer games, and better organization. Then they shove all the 10’s, and 12’s coeds into the second session. This crunches the pool space, limits the number of officials available (also because fewer officials want to work the second session), and crowds the pool decks and parking lots.
You had 14 girls platinum playing in a 5-lane course in Corona, and wall goals in Villa Park. That would never be tolerated on the 14 boys’ platinum side.
Throughout my entire life USAWP has been trying to reinvent the wheel with their men’s team with little change or success. They are placated to at every level, and this JO’s was no exception. You know why our men can’t beat the Eastern Euros? Because they’re pampered and babied throughout their water polo lives!
Here’s your solution, USAWP: treat them like the girls!
(There’s no shortage of other issues with JO’s, and you covered a lot of it, but that’s the most egregious one I saw).
We at SHAQ, had a blast at JOs. Overall felt the officiating and desk workers were great. Some pools may have been a little small but we understand how hard it is to schedule that many games. I had fun videotaping some 10u parental behavior in the stands and hope someday that parents remember that kids can not hear their coaches when you are berating the referees or telling them to shoot. Go USA Polo and Go SHAQ. Mark Anderson
I'm glad that you and your club had a positive experience at JOs. I hope it's clear that I'm not saying there is no value in the event, and I think the experience of each club and team at the event will be different as well. I do think that there are aspects to the event that I've brought up here that still bear examination and discussion such as the parental behavior you allude to. Thanks for your reply and keep thinking water polo!
Great thoughts! My daughter and her east coast club had a great time this year, and had a great time last year. Her team struggles to find competitive games outside of California so JO's are tough to beat. Squeezing as many games as possible in a short window is a pretty effective cost for the competition and exposure. We were lucky to have a great group of parents and a roster with fairly balanced playing time, plus the team outplayed their initial seed and had a lot of college coaches see the girls play for the first time. We did have one game where the officiating let the physicality get out of control and another where a player was questionably rolled 3 minutes in, but water polo struggles with officiating at all levels (as you've written). I'm sure their coach was miserable but overall it was extremely positive for the kids and the parents.
I can see how it's much less fun for a California team who has a day of blowouts just to play the same clubs they play multiple times a year. However, it gives so many clubs from outside of California a unique experience that I think is critical for maintaining, let alone growing the sport outside of California. I worry that significant changes to the event would negatively impact the non-California clubs, which is already a challenge.
Finally, the complaints about ringers are kinda silly IMO. It seems like most top clubs have someone that doesn't train with the club year round on their JO roster. Every situation is different for the club and the kid but I don't have much sympathy for an Orange County club bringing in a top player from Texas or the East Coast losing to a team with a few Brazilian national players.
I appreciate you bringing your perspective to the conversation! The difference in JOs between California teams and out of state teams and even between the major clubs in California and the smaller ones is an interesting point of discussion.
Likewise, your point about the ability for your daughter's team to get these level of games as well as the cost effectiveness (and cost in general) of getting them is another great area that I think there is much to be said about.
Unfortunately, I was already well over 1500 words in my post and there are so many facets to this discussion that some things were just out of the scope of my article. Thank you for bringing some of those things to the discussion.
Yeah good point on smaller California clubs having a different experience. My daughter also used to play on one of those and we were able to go to a couple of their games in a Classic Division and spend some time with the team. Level of play was clearly lower than Platinum but the kids were having fun playing competitive games against new teams at their level. I didn't hear any complaints from parents, they were just happy to watch their kids play polo, and the kids seemed to enjoy the experience as well. Keep in mind these are kids who just want to play on their high school team and maybe do club in college. It makes me wonder if many of the gripes you're hearing come from the top ~5-20 clubs who are putting a ton of pressure on themselves but aren't quite at the highest level, with a few additional gripes coming from some of the Orange County clubs somewhat unjustly stuck in a Classic division. While everyone else is mostly happy to be there or competing for the championship.
Junior Olympics isn't about the event. If all you are focusing on is the uncomfortable seating on crowded pool decks in the intense sunshine, the cacophony of aggressive parents, and the itineraries where everything from travel, to managing what to eat when, to where to spend the time between games, then you are going to be disappointed. Staying at home on your comfy couch in your air-conditioned house is the better option. Junior Olympics is about the 11 months getting to Junior Olympics. It is about the hundreds of hours the kids spend learning to interact as members of a team, the work they put in to developing a skill, and the emotional journey through the games leading up to Junior Olympics. It is not a journey that happens to someone who plans to spend the 3rd week in July on their couch. You knew that once.
I appreciate youre response and it seems I've struck a nerve with you. I never discredited the work or buildup to JOs. Instead I am saying that the event is an unworthy product for the effort the teams are putting in.
I think it's at least a little disingenuous to say that I'm focusing on the wrong things when I'm relating what I observed and overheard or that it's about the work and team when so much of the chatter around the event is about ringers and superteams. I was clear that I think there are positives about JOs and think individual teams and clubs get a lot from it, but responses like yours that try to act like the issues pointed out shouldn't be discussed or addressed are part of the problem to me.
It wasn't my intention to be disingenuous and I greatly appreciate the effort in crafting your thoughts. What I was trying to say was the event that is Junior Olympics should be viewed in context. It is the end point of a line and I think the line is pretty great even if the end point doesn't meet expectations.
There are annoying parents, bad coaches, and inconsistent calls. All could be better. As for the foreign players that are the obsession on the board, meh. The most egregious example I can think of is La Jolla bringing in two Italian players on 10u last year. They finished 2nd in 10u. Instead of boosting their brand, they tanked it. Last year La Jolla had an A and B team in 10u. This year they didn't have enough kids to make a B team. Meanwhile Del Mar last year had an A and B team in 10u, finished 3 places lower than La Jolla, and this year had an A, B, and C 10u team. La Jolla brought in foreign kids and damaged their pipeline while Del Mar is reaping the benefits.